Can I Offer You Some Feedback? - Episode #69

Show Notes:

In this episode of “Can I Offer You Some Feedback?” Sara brings on Pat, an Operations Director and Life Coach! They talk about remaining open to receiving an observation from someone and in doing so, making the other person feel comfortable to provide the feedback. Subscribe to this podcast today and so you never miss an episode! 

Episode #69: Creating a safe Space for Feedback

Sara: Okay. Welcome to, Can I Offer You Some Feedback? My name is Sara, and this is the podcast for those who have a complicated relationship with feedback and are looking to hear from real people across levels and industries with their ideas, perspectives, and best practices on feedback. Before we dive in, I'd like to introduce our guest for the podcast today, Pat. He's an operations director at an employee assistance program and a life coach. Welcome to the conversation today.

Pat: Thank you, Sara.

Sara: Well, let's kick things off with the main question of the podcast. When I say the phrase, can I offer you some feedback, what's your gut reaction when you hear that?

Pat: Oh, it's nerves for sure. It's rarely the case that somebody asks permission to give positive feedback. So that's definitely a brace yourself situation.

Sara: Yeah. I mean, some of that comes with conditioning if every time you've ever gotten feedback it's been couched in that way. But when you're thinking about feedback, do you prefer to be the giver or the receiver?

Pat: That is so situational, depending on the person. There are certain people that like to give lots of negative feedback and so that's not one that I usually would necessarily want. I think the quality of feedback that the person gives makes a big difference there and the relationship you have with that person.

So I think certain people I am very open to feedback from and I know that I'll learn from and I'll gain from it. But in cases where it might be someone I don't even know that well, then I'd probably not be as eager to. And as far as giving feedback, I'm a little nervous giving negative feedback to people and I only do it when I feel it's really important and when I have something very specific to do.

Sara: If you're thinking about-

Pat: I don’t know if that answers your question. That's a both end negative.

Sara: You've told me the both end of why you wouldn't do either [laughs] instead of telling me which one you prefer.

Pat: Yeah. Yeah, I suppose I prefer receiving, I suppose.

Sara: When you are thinking about that receiving, if you had to, how do you ask for feedback? How do you reach out for it?

Pat: How do I reach out for it? I think if I'm looking for feedback, it's because I'm concerned that there's something that I'm not doing well. So I would reach for somebody who I respect as somebody that has the answer. And really, to me, it's about just being open and putting it out there, being as comfortable as possible because if you want honest feedback from somebody, I would do my best to make them comfortable because they're going to give the most accurate feedback if they're comfortable enough. They know I really want it and they know I'm trying to improve my situation and they're somebody who I respect, then I would just connect as honest way as possible.

Sara: I appreciate that you are kind of touching on the fact that their comfort, it's not just us who has to be comfortable in being ready to receive the feedback, in preparing to hear a message we may not want to hear, but also trying to create a space where that person feels like it's safe. Like, I'm not going to explode, I'm not going to get upset, like I really do want this. So, please provide me with that feedback that is honest, obviously packaged nicely, but that is honest because I am asking for it.

Pat: Exactly.

Sara: When you're thinking about feedback, how would you define meaningful feedback?

Pat: Meaningful means helpful, and of course, honest. But I think it needs to be helpful to be meaningful. If you're giving somebody feedback, you should ask yourself before giving the feedback, is this going to help them? And if the answer is no, somebody should be looking at their motives for wanting to give the feedback. And sometimes it's just that they're angry and they want to tell somebody.

I think if they can honestly answer the question that this will help them. And also, another important thing is, can they do anything about it? Can they use it? Which this might sound like the same thing but in some cases, it might be helpful but there's still nothing they can do about the situation. I think if you have a way to help people, it's all about are you doing it for the right reasons? And is it because you care about that person?

Sara: Right, rather than just something that's not your preference, not your cup of tea. Is it something that this person actually could do something with? I think really makes a big difference.

Pat: Right, exactly.

Sara: Could you share an example of a time where you've either seen meaningful feedback delivered or you've experienced it, someone providing you with that meaningful feedback?

Pat: Yeah. I've provided a lot of feedback over the years doing coaching. I provide a couple of different types of coaching in my job. In some cases, it's consultation with EAP customers who are calling about employees. Very often it's employees who are closed off to feedback and they're struggling with the employees. So I have a lot of discussions with them about delivering feedback. But also, when I'm doing live coaching, it's really not about feedback. It's, I'm not supposed to be giving my opinion much, but in some cases, if they ask for it or some cases, I'll ask my permission to give it.

The example that I am thinking of is one where somebody really wasn't hearing me. We were discussing a way that they could approach something in life and prepare for a milestone in their life. And I had bounced an idea off of them and they said, “Great,” and they ran with it. This was a real type A type person. They ran with it in a way that was the opposite of the direction I was hoping they would run with, but it was their type A personality that caused that to happen.

So I provided some feedback and I was direct with them and I worded it a little bit differently and I worded it more directly and I think this person who had been so type A probably wasn't used to hearing such direct feedback before. I was polite and professional about it and friendly, but they then got it and found more value in the way I intended it than what they first interpreted. Then they gave me some feedback that said, “Wow, that was very helpful.”

I think the takeaway there was being direct and being succinct and it felt good to take a chance and give somebody that feedback that I wasn't sure was going to go over well and for them to provide me the feedback that I did.

Sara: Yeah. I think that's always a kind of risk that you take as a coach. And even in your consulting conversations too, you have the ability because you're external. It's not your organization, it's not your employee, it's not your life. We have a different perspective than the client or the caller or the organizational context does.

And so, the context that we have sometimes gives us the chance to see something that maybe that other person isn't looking for or choosing not to see and providing them that clarity in the moment of, this is what I'm observing, this is what I'm seeing, this is how I saw you interpret this, and are you aware of that?

And most times folks are not aware of how they're processing the information, the bias that they're bringing with it, the things that they're ignoring about the situation. Which again, from the outside it's a little bit in a way easier for us to be detached from the context of everything that's going on for that person.

Pat: Exactly. Yeah. And I think in the consultative role that I play with customers, a lot of it is about company culture. And hearing as somebody who's outside of that company culture, providing them with a perspective that's unique can sometimes be very helpful because the problem they're having with an employee might just be they're having a little trouble adjusting to that culture and I might be able to help them understand that person a little bit better by just asking a few questions. I ask way more questions than I make statements for sure. I lead both types of encounters with questions and that perspective, that different perspective is helpful.

Sara: Which is tricky. Leading with questions is often the best way to have folks see insight into their situation, but they're calling for answers, right? And so, there's this pull between like the questions that we're asking to help them uncover what the answer is. Because again-

Pat: But if you can lead them to the answer with that question then they get it, and that's their answer and that feels much better and it's much more genuine than if you give them the answer. Because then they're like, ugh... There's always a judgment there.

Sara: Right, absolutely. Because they didn't come up with it.

Pat: Right.

Sara: When you're thinking of again whether it's individual clients you're working with or the organizations that you're supporting, if people could do one thing better regarding feedback, what would it be?

Pat: It would be to prepare yourself by really understanding the facts before you provide the feedback. Oh man, that's two things. Can I give you two? So be prepared and then be direct. Don't couch it in a lot of fluff because fluff clouds it up. You got to be very direct. But if it's based on fact and direct, then it'll get through clearly.

Sara: Yeah. I find that direct communication has got a little bit of a bad rap as being perceived as that it's blunt or unkind or--

Pat: I've been called blunt. Yeah.

Sara: ...cruel. But direct feedback is telling someone the thing that they need to know. You can be specific, you can be direct, you can get to it without being unkind, without being cruel. There are ways to do that.

Pat: And they can disagree with your direct feedback. But if it's genuinely delivered from a place of these are some observations I'm concerned about and they can tell your intentions are good, hopefully they won't be hurt by that. And that all gets back to your relationship. You have to consider those things before you really provide feedback. Because if it's somebody who you don't have a strong relationship with, they're not going to be open to feedback and you have to really be careful about delivering it then. Not to say you shouldn't, but.

Sara: Yeah, absolutely. Well, for the last question in our time together today, Pat, can I offer you some feedback?

Pat: Oh, oh, of course.

Sara: We've got that relationship established. Well, Pat, I've had the opportunity to know you for almost 10 years at this point and we've worked together in a number of different capacities. I think that, and it's very convenient you've kind of touched on it today, one of the things I can always count on you for is you tell me I'm wrong in the nicest way possible. Like it’s-

Pat: You’re never wrong. I don’t know what you're talking about.

Sara: No, no, no. I feel like when I'm having a conversation with you and we have different ideas about how to do something or different approaches, and we've had many conversations where we just had vastly different ideas on how to lead a particular group or run an initiative or communicate a message. I don't mean that you're outright just telling me I'm wrong. You're helping me see your perspective from a place of, I'm not better than you, I just see it different than you.

And again, the core of it is I disagree or you're wrong, but it's done in such a way that I feel like we're doing it in partnership. Like this is our idea, this is our project, we're working together. It's just such a beautiful way that you package the feedback of like, no, and here's some extra context that I see, here's some extra information.

Pat: That's the thing. I appreciate that. That feels good to hear. But I think it comes across that way because I've never had the thought in my mind that you were wrong. It's always the case that, okay, here's some other facts we need to consider because there might be a better approach. Maybe we can incorporate parts of your approach, but let's consider this on the other end. So how is our approach going to address this piece of it?

And that's the partnership of it. That's why you're one of the favorite people I've ever worked with is because we do partner very well together when it comes to things like that. That's good feedback I have for you is that I think I've learned the directness and big part from you. You've been a good model for that. Because again, and it is always positive and I can tell it's always from a place of wisdom and willingness to help. So, thank you for modeling that.

Sara: Thank you so much, Pat. We’re giving each other feedback. I love it.

Pat: Yes.

Sara: Well Pat, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me and thanks to you for joining us in another episode of, Can I Offer You Some Feedback? You can reach me at podcast@mod.network. We would love to hear from you on your thoughts on feedback or any other perspectives you'd like to hear from next. As always, give us a quick rating on your platform of choice and share this podcast with a friend. And I'm hoping that tomorrow you take a chance and offer some feedback when it's needed most.